Cherry, The Mobile Operator That Doesn’t Care Whether You’re On Wi-Fi Or Not

[mobaholic]

According to TechCrunch:

"The chances of me being genuinely amazed at something I see a Belgian tech company achieve are rather slim.  But occasionally, it happens.  Last week I went to local entrepreneur meetup BetaGroup and saw five startups pitch their stuff to the 200-person audience.

The last one to get its five minutes of fame was Cherry, a new mobile operator that promised to “revolutionize the telecom world”.  Needless to say, I was as curious as I was skeptical.

Then the company’s CEO got up on stage, introduced himself, took out his Nokia smartphone, called some random guy in the audience and had him call him back on his phone afterwards.  Projecting his mobile phone screen on a bigger screen for everyone to see, he demonstrated how he didn’t need to launch an application and just browsed his contact list to call the other person.  Standard functionality, sure, but the cool part of it was the fact that the phone was lacking the presence of a SIM card, which is supposed to identify you as a subscriber of a telephony service.

I was intrigued.  By now you’ll have guessed that the calling was done over Wi-Fi, which I suppose isn’t really unique even if it made me wonder how they did it without launching a third-party app like Skype. Looking to learn more, I went to their official coming-out event the evening after, when they presented the newly founded company to a host of local geeks in more detail, giving them the chance to beta-test the service for a couple of weeks to iron out bugs before launching publicly.

Here’s how it works: Cherry - which is essentially an MVNO - pre-installs software (so yes, in the demo there was actually an application running in the background) on smartphones which it will sell as a packaged product, starting with a Symbian version for Nokia E-Series phones and expanding to other platforms later.  Once activated, Cherry lets you call your contacts either over Wi-Fi or the GSM network when you insert a SIM card. Take out the card, and you can only call over a wireless Internet connection.

The funky part?  Cherry automatically switches you from one to the other.  This process, called a handover, can seriously cut into your current calling and roaming costs when you’re a frequent traveler or on the road often, and it doesn’t even require you to change numbers.  You could easily dial your office number from your home over Wi-Fi, leave the house and have the software automatically have Cherry switch you over to a carrier’s cellular network once you’re out of range.  There’s no interruption of service during the handover, which means you won’t even notice - until you receive your bill, since it’s obviously cheaper to call over Wi-Fi than the GSM network.  Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I think this automatic handover is a quite unique value proposition.

I did a short interview with Cherry CEO Bernard Noël De Burlin and Telco Service Manager aka mobile guru Davy Van De Moere after the event (apologies for the abrupt ending, my Flip’s batteries ran out of juice).

And just in case you don’t have a couple of minutes to watch the video, let me save you the trouble of asking: support for iPhone and Android are on the top of their list and a Windows Mobile-compatible version should be available soon.

(Full disclosure: the company gave me a Nokia E51 and free calling minutes so I could try out the service under normal circumstances on a daily basis. I need to return or pay for the phone end of August 2009".)

[amitjajoo]

Amazing stuff........ cant wait for this to come to UK 

[Graham]

A very interesting post, MH. I hope we get to hear more about this in the near future.

[andy]

I dont see what is so radical about this. There are plenty of VoIP providers, some with client programs that enable them to run via wifi, and conditional call forwarding

[amitjajoo]

I dont see what is so radical about this. There are plenty of VoIP providers, some with client programs that enable them to run via wifi, and conditional call forwarding

Does any of them allow someone to call u back without your sim card in the phone ?? 

[nixforfun]

Does any of them allow someone to call u back without your sim card in the phone ?? 

Amit,

If you use an application like Fring, it does allow you to use messengers over your Wifi connection irrespective of whether you have the sim card or not. I am not sure if skype over symbian application is available yet (it was being developed when i last looked), but once that is available you could use that over wifi for your calls giving exactly what Cherry does.

What is interesting about this application is the "seamless" handover from wifi to 3G. So it would be very interesting how this application can manage to keep calls alive when I move from one network to another- it is a big challenge in my opinion

Regards
Nik

[andy]

Does any of them allow someone to call u back without your sim card in the phone ?? 

this argument is nonsense, perhaps derived from the journalist's naive failure to appraise what was in front of him

does this or any other product allow forwarding to the mobile number, or to a VoIP client running via 3g data, without the SIM card in the phone?

no

[mobaholic]

this argument is nonsense, perhaps derived from the journalist's naive failure to appraise what was in front of him

does this or any other product allow forwarding to the mobile number, or to a VoIP client running via 3g data, without the SIM card in the phone?

no

I cannot tell whether he was naive or not, but doesn't his account conflict with what you assert ?       

From the third paragraph:-

(he) .... just browsed his contact list to call the other person.  Standard functionality, sure, but the cool part of it was the fact that the phone was lacking the presence of a SIM card, which is supposed to identify you as a subscriber of a telephony service.

How do you read this to come to the conclusion you do ?       

[andy]

The account almost conflicts with itself

Two of the points made are that wi-fi calls can be made without a SIM installed, and that seamless transition from wi-fi to forwarding to GSM can be achieved

As the latter is apparently an achievement [if it works], then highlighting the former is pointless, as the two points contradict each other, and hardly anybody is likely to use a mobile phone in that way in practice; they might as well use a phone that does only wi-fi

But to say it again: this is nothing new, other firms have been offering some of these possibilities for some time

As for developing this for the iPhone, which they mention, I have read more than once that the iPhone just doesn't do handling a number of tasks in the background


I think this review is rather more in line with my viewpoint
http://www.intomobile.com/2009/07/06/cherry-yet-another-mobile-voice-over-ip-operator-this-time-in-belgium.html

Apart from that, the thing is in beta testing, perhaps only for a couple of weeks so far, and its website only says coming soon, so it isn't yet actually available, nor is any info on prospective tariffs. How long have they spent testing it via mobile data connections? Apparently a configuration sms will be sent out next week, so perhaps not too many handovers to 3g data have yet happened.

If you check my IP address, you can confirm that I am abroad at the moment, though I ask you not to say where. I have made and received a number of calls over GSM and wi-fi. Last night I called home for 1 cent a minute. I could possibly do so even from my mobile outside wi-fi coverage by using a cheap data package over 3g or EDGE, but I haven't bothered trying it yet

I don't need to hold my breath

[mobaholic]

Thanks for your reply andy.  Enjoy your time / break / holiday / business trip / or whatever.           

[andy]

According to TechCrunch:

"The chances of me being genuinely amazed at something I see a Belgian tech company achieve are rather slim.  ...

Then the company’s CEO got up on stage, introduced himself, took out his Nokia smartphone, called some random guy in the audience and had him call him back on his phone afterwards.  Projecting his mobile phone screen on a bigger screen for everyone to see, he demonstrated how he didn’t need to launch an application and just browsed his contact list to call the other person.  Standard functionality, sure, but the cool part of it was the fact that the phone was lacking the presence of a SIM card, which is supposed to identify you as a subscriber of a telephony service.

I was intrigued.  By now you’ll have guessed that the calling was done over Wi-Fi, which I suppose isn’t really unique even if it made me wonder how they did it without launching a third-party app like Skype. Looking to learn more, I went to their official coming-out event the evening after ...

(Full disclosure: the company gave me a Nokia E51 and free calling minutes so I could try out the service under normal circumstances on a daily basis. I need to return or pay for the phone end of August 2009".)

I have news for this journalist:

I can do this. So can anyone with a Nokia E51.

I tried it in the middle of swapping SIM cards

Without a SIM card, the phone display says Offline where the network name would usually appear. When a number is entered and the dial key pressed, I got a pop-up saying Requesting registration, then another saying No WLAN coverage for making an internet call.

What this means is this:

If I had wi-fi coverage, I'd be able to make a call using the SIP settings I installed in the phone.

In addition, to complete the demonstration as described above, if I had chosen a VoIP provider that allowed me to set my mobile number as outgoing caller ID, for the convenence of people calling me back, and if separately I had previously forwarded my mobile to a DID attached to the SIP account in the phone, then the call to the audience would show the mobile number, and the return call would ring the phone on the stage. Aleternatively, set a landline as the caller ID, and don't bother with mobile complications at all.

So what is the actual point of doing this? Is it something that one would do in real life, or is it just to impress gullible journalists who might actually know rather less than they would like their readers to believe?

That leaves the only actual achievement of this company as the seamless switching of call between wi-fi and GSM/3g. And perhaps they are still working on that ...

Is it too much to hope that some of the blogging community knew a bit more about what they are writing about? Admittedly I didn't to start with, but this experiment took me a few seconds

[petkow]

Hello world!

Just thought it's time I show my face here and share my experiences on what is being discussed here. This is an interesting post as it is actually close to something I've been doing for a while using Betamax and Nokia E series phones without really thinking it is anything that special. I suppose like Andy, I am a bit sceptical about the "breakthrough" that cherry claim to have achieved... but who knows... there may be more to it?

My setup is that I have a few Betamax accounts configured via the inbuilt SIP capabilities of my Nokia E71. One of the Betamax accounts has an old UK landline number associated with it, which people tend to call me on. This will ring my handset (with or without a SIM) provided it is in WiFI coverage, which it is at all my usual work/home places worldwide. If I am not in WiFI coverage, I still have the SIP phone (with Betamax) configured via 3G and a data plan. I find I am able to make/receive calls via Betamax over 3G internet provided I am standing still. (i.e. pretty useless in the car). For those who are data conscious, it is good to know that SIP calls collectively (download and upload) use about 1MB/min. Now if the phone is not in 3G coverage, the Betamax landline number will not be able to reach me via SIP, but at this point it "seamlessly" diverts to GSM, for which I get charged by them at around 6c/min for incoming calls to my UK landline number to be diverted to my normal mobile number (in my case it is Spanish).

Bits of the above setup, save me a small fortune when I am roaming. However it is worth mentioning that unless I have a data plan on a local SIM in the country I am visiting, I obviously do not logon to 3G voice sercices, and instead rely on WiFI. Provided I am in WiFI coverage, I get my normal mobile numbers to divert to my Betamax landline number (which comes out of my free minutes), which then subsequently finds and rings my handset via SIP. Sorry if it sounds a bit complicated, but basically the net effect is I can receive calls on my normal UK mobile or landline numbers whilst I am in Slovakia, India, Pakistan, middle east or wherever without paying any incoming call costs.

Obviously there are substantial savings too on outgoing calls as Betamax allows many countries to be called for free or very very cheap. However, this is where I have a small problem, as for some strange reason, Betamax does not transmit my caller ID whilst placing SIP calls through the Nokia E-series SIP client. It works fine whilst I am making calls across the internet, but my callers always get a "number withheld" message whilst I am calling from my phone.

Hope this may help someone, or is interesting reading if not!

[Graham]

Very interesting reading for me, Petkow. Thanks a bundle for this info.

[petkow]

Thanks! For frequent travellers to particular countries, it is worth noting that so many countries have seriously cheap 3G data tarrifs on local SIMs, starting at less than 1c/MB. These are often a good investment even for a single trip.

e.g. Tchibo in Germany, Simyo in Spain, Yesss in Austria etc. As always, more details can be found on the best site and forum associated with international prepaid simcards which is prepaidgsm.net!

[seanjoe]

hi petkow.
are you the same person from the telecomforum forum website?
if so, cheers and hope to see  you around more regularly.