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Author Topic: Virgin mobile sim only  (Read 19165 times)
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delaro
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« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2016, 05:50:59 AM »

They basically want customers who use very little resources to increase their profits. They are probably banking on the majority of customers being attracted by the 5000 minutes but then using very few of them. I'd say Virgin marketing are either idiots, or dishonest. Possibly both!

I'll throw some questions as well.... Why offer 5k mins and suspend or disconnect normally used sims?? Is it based on assumption few hundreds is considered as a potential fraud or abuse? Probably yes, and that's wrong and against the law. Is it their deceptive advertising? Probably yes, and it's wrong and against the law. Is it Virgin's incapable marketing department?  Probably yes, and that's wrong as well but only from Virgin's point of view.


dlR


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davegr
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« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2016, 09:40:33 AM »

Your mention of deceptive advertising makes me wonder who this issue can be reported to in order to force Virgin to do the right thing (either change the tariff or actually supply the minutes). It's not the ASA as there aren't actually any advertisements I've seen.

BTW one possible get-out clause for Virgin, is that in their T&C's one of the reasons they can disconnect you is for what they reasonably believe to be artificially inflated traffic. In that case, I believe you wouldn't necessarily have to do many minutes at all for them to invoke that clause. I'm sure though that a lot of those who are being terminated are not actually generating "AIT" but using international call-throughs etc. This in my mind is a genuine use of the service. Not only that but I'm not sure that the networks can "reasonably" claim AIT involving 08 numbers as they were specifically designed with revenue share in mind. This might not have initially been revenue share to the end user as we are seeing these days but a recent decision by Ofcom that considers international call-throughs on 03 numbers to be indirectly providing revenue share to the caller might have some influence on that.

For example, as Ofcom has declared that providing an international call-through on an 03 number is providing a revenue share to the caller (which is forbidden on 03 numbers) and international call-throughs have been running on 08 prefixes for around 15 years now, that would imply that whether it's in the form of an international call, a payment of revenue share, or even both (as with CallCashBack 087x numbers) that calls made to 08 numbers for the purposes of gaining a share of the revenue are probably NOT "artificially inflated traffic" in any case.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 09:45:39 AM by davegr » Logged
L2M
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« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2016, 03:05:08 PM »

Virgin,  in my opinion were unrealistically generous without anticipating the consequences of such allowances to 087 numbers on a mere 30 day rolling contracts.  It was only a matter of time before the "chicken would come home to roost!"
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i_luv_free_calls
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« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2016, 03:12:38 PM »

Virgin,  in my opinion were unrealistically generous without anticipating the consequences of such allowances to 087 numbers on a mere 30 day rolling contracts.  It was only a matter of time before the "chicken would come home to roost!"

Yes you are right. They are probably not aware of our forum :-)
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delaro
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« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2016, 04:39:28 PM »

Yes you are right. They are probably not aware of our forum :-)

Contrary.. I'm sure they are...
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L2M
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« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2016, 06:34:56 PM »

I am sure they are well aware. Their greed killed them. A bit of the old cliché  "The Hunter becoming the Hunted!"
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androidfan
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« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2016, 09:40:30 PM »

Bit of a positive update:

One of customers complained and spent an hour trying to prove his point and virgin switched his lines back on and told him "lower his calls to 08 numbers"

Good result!

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i_luv_free_calls
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« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2016, 09:45:41 PM »

Bit of a positive update:

One of customers complained and spent an hour trying to prove his point and virgin switched his lines back on and told him "lower his calls to 08 numbers"

Good result!



My mate who got blocked for calling 300 minutes of 08 calls didn't have much luck today. He said they wouldn't budge and he was told his line couldn't be reactivated.
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delaro
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« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2016, 09:50:22 PM »

Your mention of deceptive advertising makes me wonder who this issue can be reported to in order to force Virgin to do the right thing (either change the tariff or actually supply the minutes). It's not the ASA as there aren't actually any advertisements I've seen.

BTW one possible get-out clause for Virgin, is that in their T&C's one of the reasons they can disconnect you is for what they reasonably believe to be artificially inflated traffic. In that case, I believe you wouldn't necessarily have to do many minutes at all for them to invoke that clause. I'm sure though that a lot of those who are being terminated are not actually generating "AIT" but using international call-throughs etc. This in my mind is a genuine use of the service. Not only that but I'm not sure that the networks can "reasonably" claim AIT involving 08 numbers as they were specifically designed with revenue share in mind. This might not have initially been revenue share to the end user as we are seeing these days but a recent decision by Ofcom that considers international call-throughs on 03 numbers to be indirectly providing revenue share to the caller might have some influence on that.

For example, as Ofcom has declared that providing an international call-through on an 03 number is providing a revenue share to the caller (which is forbidden on 03 numbers) and international call-throughs have been running on 08 prefixes for around 15 years now, that would imply that whether it's in the form of an international call, a payment of revenue share, or even both (as with CallCashBack 087x numbers) that calls made to 08 numbers for the purposes of gaining a share of the revenue are probably NOT "artificially inflated traffic" in any case.

Trading standards to start with? Offer is listed on their website.. This is considered as ad Smiley

https://www.gov.uk/marketing-advertising-law/regulations-that-affect-advertising

Customers should always be treated fairly. If offer is for 5000 minutes the only one concerned how the allowance is used is the customer himself or herself. If network has got any AITs concerns they should only bring this up with the actual 08 number service provider.. Not the customer. I hope we all agree customer has the legal right to use the allowance however they like. Virgin can't dictate how this is being used.

dlR
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delaro
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« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2016, 09:59:23 PM »

Bit of a positive update:

One of customers complained and spent an hour trying to prove his point and virgin switched his lines back on and told him "lower his calls to 08 numbers"

Good result!



This is illegal and proves their advertising is deceptive.

Customers are allowed to use the full allowance.. However they like!!!!

I was trying to avoid saying this but.. I can't believe how stupid and narrow-minded someone at Virgin was to approve this Sim only deal.. I could not stop laughing when I saw the updated Sim only offer. Previously with unlimited mins they could argue that certain amount of mins would trigger abuse under FUP. Now they actually say you can use 5k mins. If the allowance is used up in full , this would incurr a charge to Virgin of £650.. And this is what they are trying to avoid.

dlR
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delaro
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« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2016, 10:03:43 PM »

My mate who got blocked for calling 300 minutes of 08 calls didn't have much luck today. He said they wouldn't budge and he was told his line couldn't be reactivated.

Please ask your mate to ring them back and ask to reconsider their decision. Please see posts above. If they still insist send them an email with a complaint. You are entitled to receive a full explanation in writing. Next step would be TS and ombudsman..

Whatever happens please stick to your own guns on this.

dlR
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androidfan
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« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2016, 10:21:13 PM »

My mate who got blocked for calling 300 minutes of 08 calls didn't have much luck today. He said they wouldn't budge and he was told his line couldn't be reactivated.

Tell your friend that he will take it the ombudsman, Trading standards and ofcom. Ive got another friend who is going to complain so i will post an update once i know his outcome.
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delaro
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« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2016, 10:25:01 PM »

Tell your friend that he will take it the ombudsman, Trading standards and ofcom. Ive got another friend who is going to complain so i will post an update once i know his outcome.
ditto
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i_luv_free_calls
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« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2016, 10:28:22 PM »

Tell your friend that he will take it the ombudsman, Trading standards and ofcom. Ive got another friend who is going to complain so i will post an update once i know his outcome.

I told him what to say, the above was part of it but when he was on the line with Virgin he gave up so quickly. I was sitting right there when he phoned them. He is my colleague actually.
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davegr
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« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2016, 08:30:57 AM »

While I agree that Virgin must let the customer use their allowances as they like, I wonder whether there is any obligation for Virgin to keep the customer? I know that for example, if a store advertises a product at a certain price, they have no obligation to sell you the product. What i don't know is whether a product which is an ongoing service carries an obligation with it to keep providing the customer. It might just be that Virgin are totally within their rights to disconnect any customer they see fit. I do agree though that it must be a breach of trading standards to advertise a product which it is impossible to actually use. On the other hand, we all know that they get away with "unlimited" and "up to". Somebody at Virgin is probably pretty confident that what they are doing is ok.
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